Loopholes Podcast - Kate Dryden & Justin Frank

Loopholes - A podcast investigating the breakdowns and breakthroughs in circular systems and infrastructure

Hosted by Kate Dryden (Sphere Infrastructure) & Justin Frank (Goterra)

There’s a gap between how things should work and how they do. That’s where Loopholes lives. From circular economy hacks to climate tech workarounds, Loopholes is the podcast for people who ask:

What if the problem isn’t the system—but the assumptions holding it together?

Each episode, Justin Frank, a renegade waste innovator, and Kate Dryden, a strategist reshaping environmental infrastructure, speak with the disruptors, designers and policy shapers who are finding elegant workarounds to some of the planet’s messiest challenges.

Podcast cover art for Loopholes featuring Tony Chappel, CEO of NSW EPA, with a smiling portrait of him, a teal and blue background, and a white arrow pointing to his photo

Episodes

Episode 1 - The FOGO Gap
Guest - Tony Chappel, CEO - EPA NSW

  • In this episode, we speak with Tony Chappel, CEO of the NSW Environment Protection Authority, about the gap between ambition and delivery in Australia’s food organics and garden organics (FOGO) strategy.

    Why is rolling out FOGO harder than it looks? What’s holding councils and infrastructure providers back? And how do we turn policy momentum into practical outcomes?

    Tony unpacks the regulatory, cultural, and market challenges behind the FOGO rollout—and why closing the gap matters for Australia’s climate, economy, and communities.

Podcast cover image titled "Loopholes Podcast" featuring a smiling man in a suit, with text "EP1 THE FOGO GAP TONY CHAPPEL CEO NSW EPA" and a waveform graphic in the background.

Episode 1 - The FOGO Gap
Guest - Tony Chappel, CEO - EPA NSW

  • In this episode, we speak with Tony Chappel, CEO of the NSW Environment Protection Authority, about the gap between ambition and delivery in Australia’s food organics and garden organics (FOGO) strategy.

    Why is rolling out FOGO harder than it looks? What’s holding councils and infrastructure providers back? And how do we turn policy momentum into practical outcomes?

    Tony unpacks the regulatory, cultural, and market challenges behind the FOGO rollout—and why closing the gap matters for Australia’s climate, economy, and communities.

Cover art for the Loopholes podcast featuring a black-and-white photo of Tony Chappel, CEO of NSW EPA, with a blue and green gradient background, white text, and a waveform graphic.

Episode 1 - The FOGO Gap
Guest - Tony Chappel,CEO - EPA NSW

  • In this episode, we speak with Tony Chappel, CEO of the NSW Environment Protection Authority, about the gap between ambition and delivery in Australia’s food organics and garden organics (FOGO) strategy.

    Why is rolling out FOGO harder than it looks? What’s holding councils and infrastructure providers back? And how do we turn policy momentum into practical outcomes?

    Tony unpacks the regulatory, cultural, and market challenges behind the FOGO rollout—and why closing the gap matters for Australia’s climate, economy, and communities.

Meet your hosts

JJustin Frank (Goterra) and Kate Dryden (Sphere Infrastructure) come from opposite ends of the climate economy—one from the ground up, the other from the policy in.

In Loopholes, they combine forces to explore what happens when infrastructure meets innovation, and regulation runs up against reality. This collaboration between Goterra and Sphere brings together sharp strategy, messy systems, and the people reshaping them from the inside out.

Kate Dryden

  • Co-founder & Partner

    Kate is a Principal at Sphere
    Infrastructure, where she works at the intersection of climate strategy, policy design, and infrastructure delivery. With a background in government and industry, she’s a systems thinker with a sharp eye for what's missing in the mainstream narrative.

Justin Frank

  • CCO Goterra

    Justin is the Chief Commercial Officer at Goterra, known for his straight-talking style and big-picture thinking. He’s spent years turning waste problems into circular solutions, using insects and innovation to challenge how things have always been done.

Listen Now

Season One of Loopholes features 6 episodes with bold thinkers and industry leaders, dropping weekly.

Tune in as we explore the cracks in our systems—and the people turning them into possibilities.


You can listen on:

A person holding a smartphone displaying a podcast titled 'Loopholes' with hosts Kate Dryden and Justin Frank. The screen shows the episode's date as June 2025, a progress bar, play button, skip buttons, and volume control, with a cover art featuring photos of a man and a woman.

Expect conversations that:

  • Expose contradictions in policy, planning, and public systems

  • Spotlight under-the-radar innovations and unexpected alliances

  • Decode the fine print of the climate economy—without the spin

  • Invite bold thinking grounded in real-world complexity

Two people, a woman and a man, are sitting at a table in a recording studio, engaged in a conversation with microphones in front of them, surrounded by recording equipment and notebooks.

Want to Join the Conversation?

Are you challenging the status quo in waste, water, energy, or infrastructure?
Do you see the loopholes others miss—and turn them into bold, practical solutions?

We're looking for industry leaders, innovators, and system shapers who aren’t afraid to talk about the hard stuff: what’s broken, what’s working, and what needs to change.

If that’s you, we’d love to hear from you.